The UN's nuclear chief says the world needs to pursue dialogue with North Korea over nuclear weapons

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The world must recognize that North Korea possesses nuclear weapons and pursue dialogue despite its violations of U.N. sanctions and international law, the United Nations' nuclear chief said Thursday.

In an interview with The Associated Press. Rafael Grossi, director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, wondered whether slamming the door on Kim Jong Un’s government has solved anything — “or are we, on the contrary, exacerbating the conditions for a situation that may go out of hand?”

He said North Korea’s nuclear program should be condemned for violating Security Council sanctions and international law. But there has been no international engagement since 2006 when the country became “a de facto nuclear weapon possessor state” and since then its nuclear program has expanded significantly.

Grossi said it’s very important to keep reiterating that North Korean has to stop its nuclear activities, but “at the same time, we need to start thinking seriously about stopping to talk past each other.”

“We must be proactive, and we must open doors for dialogue,” he said. “My credo .. for many, many years, has always been engage, talk, try things.”

What is happening in North Korea is extremely concerning, Grossi said. But at the same time, it should be a call for diplomatic action. He said engagement with North Korea will require “very careful, diplomatic preparatory moves” to regain trust.

“I hope that will be possible.” Grossi said. He said one possible issue for engagement with Pyongyang is on nuclear safety.

North Korea offered a very rare glimpse into a secret facility to produce weapons-grade uranium about two weeks ago. Grossi said it confirmed that the IAEA’s analysis of Pyongyang’s nuclear program is “very, very solid.”

“As these pictures show, and beyond that, they have a vast nuclear program, which is perhaps the only one in the world on which there is no visibility in terms of the observance of the basic international nuclear safety standards,” he said, pointing to tons of material being handled at its nuclear facilities.

During the North Korean leader’s visit to the secret facility, the country’s official news agency, KCNA, said Kim called for stronger efforts to “exponentially” produce more nuclear weapons.

Grossi asked what Kim means by “exponentially,” saying there is speculation on whether North Korea has 30 or 50 nuclear warheads. But more broadly, he stressed that “we are at an international juncture” where other countries are also increasing their nuclear weapons’ arsenals, though perhaps not exponentially,

“This is a symptom of our underlying, very profound malaise that will have to be addressed one way or the other,” he said.

In his more than a decade in power, Chinese President Xi Jinping has invested in high-tech military technologies and a growing arsenal of nuclear weapons. The United States is modernizing its nuclear weapons program.

And Russian President Vladimir Putin warned the West on Wednesday that any nation’s conventional attack on Russia supported by a nuclear power will be considered a joint attack on his country. The announcement was clearly aimed at discouraging the West from allowing Ukraine to use its longer-range weapons to strike Russia.

Grossi called Putin’s threat, outlined in a revision of Moscow’s nuclear doctrine, “serious” and “concerning,” and said it may represent a lowering of the threshold for the possible use of Russia’s nuclear arsenal or a “broadening” of his words.

He said other countries have also used hypothetical scenarios that would trigger nuclear weapons use.

“We are not surprised, and this is part of the calculations of countries,” Grossi said.

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday that he received an intelligence report indicating Russia is planning to attack its nuclear power plants which could lead to “a nuclear disaster.” Grossi, asked about the report, said the IAEA takes Zelenskyy’s statement seriously but “we don’t have that information.”

The nuclear agency still has staff at every nuclear power plant in Ukraine, he said, and this summer has been “particularly difficult,” with military targeting of a nuclear power plant – in Zaporizhzhia, where one of its cooling towers was set on fire. Following Ukraine’s surprise cross-border incursion into Russia, the IAEA chief visited the Kursk nuclear power plant, the country’s third largest, where the Kremlin said the remains of a drone had been found.

During the more than 2 ½-year war following Russia’s February 2022 invasion of its smaller neighbor, Grossi said he has maintained contacts with both sides. If he calls Putin or Zelenskyy, he said, “they will probably pick up the phone,” because they recognize that nuclear safety has regional and even global implications.

As for Iran, its new reformist president, Masoud Pezeshkian, has said Tehran didn’t want to enrich uranium at near-weapons grade levels but had been forced to when the United States withdrew from the 2015 nuclear deal between his country and six major powers. In his first speech on the world stage, Pezeshkian told the General Assembly on Wednesday that Iran is “ready to engage” on the 2015 nuclear deal if all participants act in good faith.

Grossi said the president’s comments are an opening for the IAEA, and he plans to visit Tehran “very soon."

“What I would like to hear from him is what is his take on the return to an agreed framework, which is, in my opinion, what we need to do,” the IAEA chief said.

It could be on the basis of the 2015 nuclear deal known as the JCPOA, Grossi said, but Iran has far advanced its nuclear capacities since then. “It will have to be much, much stronger,” he said, "and we are ready to work with them.”

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Edith M. Lederer, chief U.N. correspondent for The Associated Press, has covered international affairs for more than a half-century. See more of AP’s coverage of the U.N. General Assembly at https://apnews.com/hub/united-nations